Perplexed

[Anhartic]

Greetings, everyone.

The 2020 Evoque D180 HSE R-Dynamic has been driven for 20,000 kilometres.

I am a complete novice, since I have never been a member of any internet forum before. My apologies if I mistakenly publish in the incorrect location, but I am certain that I will get familiar with the correct procedure.

I purchased my Evoque from an authorised dealer during the period of restricted movement, also known as lockdown. Over the last three years or more, I have generally been really satisfied with its performance. The vehicle has required the replacement of two rear lights owing to water infiltration, as well as a new battery, both of which were covered under warranty. Apart from these issues, the vehicle has performed well. Up to the previous week.

During a shopping trip, I saw many non-critical warning lights on the dashboard while driving. These warning lights included ATPC, Forward Alert, and Autonomous braking. Warnings indicated that it was permissible to drive, but with the need to exercise care. In addition, there is a prominent white noise, similar to the sound produced by a fan, emanating from behind the passenger seat. Furthermore, the rear doors are not functioning properly, and the electric tailboard is also non-operational. Upon parking the vehicle, it failed to restart. There is no starting motor, no clicking sound indicating engagement, and no activity whatsoever. The dashboard illuminated briefly before dimming to darkness. The AA technician was unable to resolve the issue due to several fault codes that could not be cleared. Consequently, I had to be transported back home in an AA relay truck.

Subsequently, I removed the battery, which is one year old, and proceeded to charge and test it, resulting in a state of health (SOH) and charge level of 100%. I then reinstalled the battery, but the issue persisted.

My next course of action is to transfer it to my local Land Rover independent mechanic. However, I would want to inquire if anybody has had a similar issue or has any insights that might help pinpoint the cause of the problem.

Apologies for seeking assistance in my first post. Kindly guide me to the appropriate section of the forum if necessary.

Greetings

[RosaStyle]

The 48V battery pack and the DC-DC converter are located under the passenger seat. These vehicles do not have a starting motor since they are equipped with a Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) system. Instead, they utilise a Belt-Integrated starting Generator (BISG) that operates on a 48V system. The BISG may give additional power to help the vehicle accelerate.

The illuminated Christmas tree you are receiving often suggests a malfunctioning 12V battery, either discharged or defective. However, in your situation, it seems that the DC-DC converter is not functioning correctly. This converter serves as the equivalent of an alternator and supplies power to the 12V circuits.

Do you own a copy of the Workshop Manual? It is very valuable and offers extensive information on the different components and their functionalities. Is it possible to attempt the removal of a fuse in order to cut off power supply to the converter and then reset it?

[Anhartic]

Thank you for your response, RosaStyle

Prior to this, I was unfamiliar with BISG, hence I conducted an online search to acquaint myself with the latest information. Regrettably, I do not own a workshop manual. To be honest, the most recent ones I had were for the Ford Cortina Mk 3 and Fiat 132 Twin Cam, which were used during the construction of my Wildcat kit car in the early 1990s. Consequently, I am unaware of the precise location of the fuse box.

I found it peculiar that several other postings implied the existence of a sub-woofer cooling fan under the passenger seat that may potentially have a problem. Your explanation is much more beneficial.

I believe it would be beneficial to provide the detailed analysis report provided by the AA.

The patrol team discovered the following defect code(s):The system is an engine control system with the model 9M4 and it is designed for diesel engines. The specific model of the engine control system is MEDC 17.9-3. Status: p0087 - Fuel pressure system / system pressure. Error Message: Signal below anticipated levels. Historical error. Status: U0080 - The FlexRay data bus. Error Message: The calculated value is wrong. The error occurs intermittently. Status code p05F8 indicates a malfunction in the AdBlue heating control system. Error Message: There is an open circuit. The error occurs randomly and unpredictably. Status: p05ED - AdBlue heating control. Error Message: Voltage is below the specified threshold. The error occurs intermittently. Status: p2453 - Sensor for measuring the differential pressure across the particulate filter. Error Message: Signal malfunctioning. Historical error. Status: U0402 - CAN message: Transmission control unit. Error Message: Signal plausibility is not satisfactory. An occurrence or defect that is related to the past.

The AA technician said that the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) was not establishing communication with the Controller Area Network (CAN) bus. He saw it as quite peculiar.

I conducted a test on the battery by installing it in the vehicle the day after bringing it home. During that period, the displayed state of charge was around 59%. I found it peculiar since the AA had checked it and confirmed its excellent condition at the roadside. They attempted to jump start the vehicle, but it was unsuccessful. After removing the battery from the automobile and testing it a day later, the state of charge (SOC) was found to be 48%. That seems to be a significant decrease. The process of fully charging took a duration of 8 hours. After reinstalling the battery in the automobile, I am able to activate the ignition. Subsequently, I see the following cautionary messages shown on the dashboard:

The amber engine fault indicator is shown and the ATPC system has been halted.
The functionality of the Forward Alert system has been diminished, and it is now only capable of detecting vehicles. It is OK to drive, but care should be used. Stability control is currently unavailable.
It is permissible to drive while exercising care. Autonomous emergency braking is not yet accessible.

Upon applying pressure on the brake pedal and activating the starting, no response is seen, and all the indicators on the dashboard vanish, with just the parking brake sign remaining.

I would want to attempt the removal of certain fuses. Could you kindly direct me to the location of the fuse box? Incidentally, I conducted a continuity test on all of the fuses located in the plastic box situated on the positive battery terminal. No errors or issues were discovered. In addition, I inspected the 5 earth bolts located on the chassis underneath the battery to ensure they were securely fastened.

I intend to get a workshop handbook. Meanwhile, I would much appreciate any more ideas. The local independent dealership questioned me extensively about the car being a hybrid, as they do not often deal with hybrid vehicles. Therefore, I will need to verify whether they are still ready to accept it before I arrange and pay for a transporter to deliver it to their location. I am beginning to question if hiring a mobile auto electrician would be a more advantageous choice.

[RosaStyle]

The vehicle is classified as a "Mild Hybrid," however it is essential to have someone who is knowledgeable about and open to new technologies and has the complete diagnostic toolkit, ideally the pathfinder system. If a single failure occurs on a CANbus vehicle, it may result in a multitude of alarms and warnings, like a Christmas Tree. However, this does not necessarily indicate a genuine fault with any of those systems. The root cause may lie elsewhere, such as a problem with the power on the 12V bus.

Is the battery being charged as an AGM? I am perplexed as to why you need a replacement earlier, which raises worries that there may have been some underlying issue that caused harm to the 12V batteries. It is possible that the DC-DC converter is also responsible for the issue. I am curious whether it has been malfunctioning for an extended period of time. An AGM 12V battery should provide a minimum of 5 years of service, and maybe longer if properly maintained. (Furthermore, could you kindly clarify the meaning of SOH in your first message?) If the battery was replaced by JLR within the last year, you may be eligible to have the dealership reexamine it, since they may have overlooked the underlying issue. Attempt to contact JLR's primary customer care line and observe the resulting response.

Haynes Workshop Manuals are not readily available for current automobiles since manufacturers like to retain exclusive access to repair and service information. This practice complicates matters for individuals who wish to do these tasks independently. I have personally serviced Spock and have prepared a zip file including the Manuals and other relevant materials, including Part Numbers for all the service items. This file is available for you or anybody else who may find it helpful.

[Anhartic]

Regardless, I proceeded to purchase a Haynes Manual in order to see whether there were any straightforward diagnostic techniques I might adhere to. The superior one you provided the link to will be my first point of contact.

SOH stands for State of Health. The algorithm calculates the result based on the battery readings obtained from the tester. However, because the battery in question is not a lithium battery, I am uncertain about its level of accuracy. After fully charging and allowing it to rest for 15 minutes, my subsequent measurements were as follows: 13.17 volts, 805 cold cranking amps (CCA), and a resistance of 3.28 milliohms. I charged it like an AGM battery using the higher voltage * sign on my old C-TEK 5.0 charger.

Indeed, you are correct in stating that the battery poses a perplexing challenge. A year ago, I brought it to the authorised dealership since the automatic tailboard was not functioning. The battery was identified as defective and subsequently replaced. I inquired about the rapid depletion of a battery that was just three years old, and they dismissed my concerns with a feeble explanation that the automobile had a high power consumption and that dead batteries were not uncommon. At that moment, I believed that I had received a defective item.

Curiously, prior to the occurrence of these new error messages, I had the identical problem with the tailboard. I surmised that the issue was likely due to a depleted battery, and hence believed that a substantial drive would resolve the problem. It failed to do so.

I have already revisited the dealership to inquire about the warranty coverage for the battery. I was informed that the battery warranty coincided with the expiration of the automobile warranty, resulting in a guarantee period of just a few weeks. When I inquired about the cost of transporting the car to their workshop, they informed me that I would be responsible for arranging the transportation myself. Very helpful.

After 24 hours of reinstalling the battery in the automobile, I have conducted another test on it. I have only engaged the ignition and attempted to start the vehicle, but it did not activate. Essentially, there is little power use, with the exception of activating the alarm overnight and sometimes unlocking the door. I have isolated the ground connection and conducted three separate measurements just on the battery. The mean values obtained were 12.43 volts, 763 cold cranking amps (CCA), 3.46 milliohms, with a state of health of 88% and a charge level of 79%.

The last one is the one that is perplexing. The charge has decreased by 21% during a 24-hour period. That is unquestionably abnormal.

One detail I failed to mention before is that on April 2nd, I took my vehicle to the dealership for the security update recall. They refused to disclose the specifics of their actions, just stating that it included a software update. Given prior knowledge of occasional failures of the security system to enter sleep mode, I am curious whether the update may have been somehow compromised.

[RosaStyle]

There is certainly some power loss occurring, maybe due to a malfunctioning battery. It seems that you are experiencing the typical symptoms seen in CANbus cars when the battery fails. However, having two battery failures within a year is rather unusual. There seems to be something suspicious happening... :uncertain:

A voltage of 12.43V is at the threshold for an AGM battery. Do you have the Recovery Mode activated on your CTEK charger? I own the MXS 5.0, which is capable of desulfating a battery. It is possible that your battery may need this process. Initially, I suggest attempting to use an other battery. Are you able to get one? In order to borrow for testing purposes, it is necessary to determine whether it resolves all the problems. Although you may know what has to be replaced, it is still important to uncover the underlying reasons. If there is no effect, you may disregard the battery and focus on the car itself. As you said, it could not be entering a state of sleep correctly. If you are unable to borrow one, purchasing one may still be a cost-effective option, since it will cost less than the time it takes for a diagnostic session, which often lasts less than an hour. It is possible to return the item the next day and get a complete refund, since it was ultimately deemed unnecessary.

Given that you need a replacement for your AGM battery within a span of 3 years, I have reason to believe that the Security update is unrelated to this issue. Have you provided both sets of keys to them? The recent upgrade for MY20> vehicles included reprogramming the Body Control Module (BCM) to prevent unauthorised individuals from rewriting the BCM over the OBD2 connector, hence bypassing the need for keys to start the car. Subsequently, they initiate the vehicle by pressing the start button and proceed to drive away in your cherished possession. Currently, it seems to be functioning since the thieves have not yet been able to circumvent it. I have also received this update and have not yet seen any abnormalities.

I strongly believe that I should pursue JLR to rectify the defect that was overlooked throughout the warranty period. As I said before, I suggest contacting JLR customer services instead of your dealership. The guarantee on the item (battery) is not the primary concern. The main issue is in the quality of the service performed, namely the diagnosis. The question is why did an AGM fail prematurely? They have been recognised for their assistance in unusual situations and have even exceeded expectations.

[Anhartic]

I own a recovery mode on my CTEK device, which I might attempt to use. Is it permissible to charge the battery while the automobile is in recovery mode? Extracting it is such a cumbersome process that I am reluctant to pursue that option unless it is absolutely necessary. Can the task be accomplished simply by disconnecting the battery's earth?

I contemplated purchasing a new battery and I acknowledge your perspective on the expense of diagnostic time. I lack the availability of an additional one. I contemplated the idea of intentionally disconnecting the earth for a duration of 24 hours to investigate if there would be a noticeable decrease in electrical charge in the absence of any connections.

Latest information...

After locating a willing transporter, I just returned to the independent LR garage to confirm their readiness to accept the vehicle as scheduled for next week. After researching the automobile, they determined that it is a moderate hybrid. Due to insurance reasons, they decided not to work on it. Upon reminding them that they had serviced it a mere 3 months earlier, they expressed regret, stating that they would not have done so if they had been aware of the circumstances. Essentially, I am no longer a patron of their services.

During my presence, they consulted the wiring schematics and demonstrated the location of the lithium battery under the floor. That is likely the reason why I have been perceiving the operation of the fan located under the passenger seat. The cost of a new battery is £800 or more, while a new controller is £500 or more.

Additionally, they advised against charging the battery while it is still inside the automobile. It has the potential to cause harm to certain components. Fortunately, I have not done it.

Ultimately, they advised me to either return to the dealership or seek out an independent hybrid expert. I am now experiencing profound feelings of sadness and despair.😔 Upon more reflection, I am increasingly certain that this is a preexisting problem that was not adequately recognised at the battery replacement that occurred a year ago.

[BuffUpdate]

It is peculiar that Land Rover sells (or sold) a connection to facilitate the use of their branded CTek charger on the Evoque 2, L551 models, which are all either MHEV or PHEV. This is remarkable since independent sources indicate that these models have a 12v battery that should not be charged while connected to the vehicle. As per usual, the purported professional lacks knowledge in his statements.
Based on my experience, it is possible to charge the batteries in the vehicle. However, it is important to avoid using the reconditioning option, as it raises the voltage beyond 15 volts, which is not compatible with the car's systems.

[Anhartic]

The suggestion that it was impossible to charge the battery while it was in the automobile seemed peculiar. In addition, they said that the crucial factor was the charge voltage, but they couldn't recall the specific maximum voltage. Based on my current understanding, it seems that their intention was to prevent me from making a costly error about the voltage. My CTEK charger operates at a voltage of 14.4v on the normal setting and 14.7v on the AGM option. Regardless, I have made the decision not to take the risk. If I want to recharge it, I will first detach both connections. My next course of action is to observe the daily decrease in charge when the negative connection is removed. In this manner, I will get a more accurate understanding of the current state of the battery's overall condition.

[BuffUpdate]

A few people, myself included, have added Bluetooth battery monitors. Provides instantaneous, contactless voltage measurements and is capable of performing cranking and charging tests. After comparing the battery's performance before and after the security update, there is no discernible change. Currently, the battery is at around 12.8 volts, 8 hours after a drive earlier today.

[Anhartic]

That seems to be a promising investment.

I have been examining recalls and other suggested service changes for my vehicle. I saw a document labelled N861, which is dated March 2024 and may be pertinent to my current circumstances.

A problem has been discovered where the 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) battery goes into an offline mode and stops communicating or functioning properly. This may lead to the activation of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL), the inability to use the start/stop function, and a lack of communication during diagnostic sessions. An upgrade to the Battery Energy Control Module (BECM) software is necessary.

I will only ascertain the accurate diagnosis after it is fully evaluated. At this point, my only dilemma is whether to reluctantly accept the situation and bring it to the authorised dealership or seek out a reputable independent mechanic specialising in hybrid vehicles.

[Ziinsig]

In which locality are you situated? By sharing this information, other members may become aware of a trustworthy independent entity in your vicinity.

(I apologise if I overlooked this before)

[Anhartic]

I disengaged the battery and let it to remain unconnected for the duration of the night. The test conducted this morning indicates that the battery is now at 86% charge, with a voltage reading of 12.5 volts. Based on the results of the overnight battery test, it is evident that there is a substantial power drain in the automobile, indicating that something is using a big amount of power from the battery. I now have a strong suspicion that the MHEV components are responsible.

Considering the scarcity of independent individuals who are now informed and well educated, it is likely advisable to reluctantly accept the situation and approach the authorised dealers. Undoubtedly, it will need many weeks for them to address the matter, hence I may be unable to offer any input for an extended period. Nevertheless, I anticipate receiving a substantial invoice.

[RosaStyle]

It is possible to charge the battery in its current location as the Battery Management System (BMS) can handle it. However, it is not recommended to do a recovery charge using the CTEK charger while the battery is still attached, since the voltage may exceed the recommended level.

Although I suspect there may be an issue with the DC-DC converter, I suggest attempting to resolve the problem by testing with a different battery before seeking assistance from a dealership. What do you stand to forfeit?

Additionally, it should be feasible for you to locate a JLR independent expert in your vicinity who will proficiently manage the MHEV models. It will remain less expensive than the Stealers, until you reach out to JLR and persuade them to acknowledge their failure to address the problem throughout the warranty period.

[Anhartic]

However, I have made the necessary preparations to transfer it to the Stealers next week. I was unable to locate anybody within a 30-mile radius that I could trust to possess the appropriate diagnostic software. I believed that I could have a higher likelihood of successfully making a goodwill claim if it turns out that the problem is a longstanding issue or an inherent vulnerability.

They have assured me that they would promptly conduct a diagnosis, therefore I will provide an update once I get the results. Fingers crossed. 🤞